go podcast()

Dominic: 00:01

Hello there. I'm Deming St. Pierre, and you're listening to go podcast. I'm a good old software engineer. I would call myself a normal software engineer.

Dominic: 00:12

I just like to, build things and things like that. And, you know, quick quickly recap. So we have this Slack channel. If you want to join, that would be nice. If you are on the go for Slack community already, the channel is go podcast.

Dominic: 00:28

So we are there. I'm trying to, you know, to be a better community builder. It's it's hard for me because, you know, I don't know I don't know how to do those things, but I'm I'm trying trying to thank you for for you know, if you want to join and participate, hopefully. There's this Patreon thing I'm trying to to see if I if I can get if I can get some help, you know, maintaining the podcast. Just, you know, as you might as you might imagine, it's it's hard, it takes time, and things like that.

Dominic: 01:00

So, I mean, I'm trying to I'm trying to see, especially with this episode, I think, you know, I I think it it's a good fit, you know, when you decide to build SaaS in in as your main thing in life, you know, money is is not always flowing. Let's just say that. And lastly, yeah, I I have this zero to Go for course, my last course that I launched last week. So, you know, this is what I believe are the basic fundamentals or, you know, the fundamentals of Go that anyone needs to know before jumping in. So if, you know, if if you never have written any any Go and you are interested into into this language, I I you know, this this course is a great is a great starting point.

Dominic: 01:47

There's always a very generous discount on the show notes. And and on that, I mean, let's let's dive in into my favorite topic on Hertz, which is software as a service. I think we can safely say that I have seen, you know, three major age in terms of software as a service. So I I started building or at least trying to create a a sustainable business in 2008, but I started my entrepreneur mindset a long time before that. So I'm one of those that were participating or at least probably, you know, more reading than than writing in the business of software forum back then.

Dominic: 02:35

So if you don't know that, Jules Polsky is you know, started a good old forum at at that time, and there there were there were quite a an interesting, you know, bunch of people that that are still are still building companies and and, you know, software companies these days and things like that. I mean, I started there. It it really opened my mind to what, you know, what a single developer could do or try to do to replace their salary and things like that, replace their their nine to five job and things like that. So I was extremely interested by that. Not before you know, not be because I I was not enjoying what I was doing.

Dominic: 03:24

It never was that. And I I've talked I've talked a lot about the kind of work that I'd done at the beginning of my career. I was very lucky to be on a place where I I call that it was it was like a playground. So, basically, I inherited a the IT department of a of a a decently sized company in in terms of the data that was there. So there was a lot of things to do, a lot of things to build, a lot of data for for the size of the company.

Dominic: 03:58

And at at 20 I I was 22 or 23, I've inherited everything. It was it was great. It was nice and all, but there there was always this I don't know. I was always looking at especially on that forum and and a couple of other people back then that were that was starting to build small companies, software company and selling that. So at first, of course, it was more it was not really with the recurring revenue that we are knowing today and things like that.

Dominic: 04:35

It was more like, oh, you know what? I have built this, you know, this program, this this good old Windows software that I'm selling for $30 and things like that, and people were paying. And I found that completely crazy. So I was always looking for that myself. So I I have started a couple of project that never really, was any any way or shape or form any kind of, success and things like that.

Dominic: 05:08

But just at first, you need to start, to, you know, just to familiarize yourself with this with this world and putting something something out there was a little bit more involving back then, I will I I would I would say. But nonetheless, it was still approachable and still possible to do that. So here we are, I am, you know, my nine to five job back then is kind of pretty interesting. I'm not at all bored and things like that, but there's something inside me that that is pushing me to try and build things, build products. So it was always that for me.

Dominic: 05:51

It was always not the satisfaction of building, but the satisfaction of publishing something that some people are interested in. That was always the thing for me. It it still is today. So it's not, you know, it's not really the end result or things like that. It's just just the fact that you are solving real problem and things like that, and people are are ready to pay you to do that.

Dominic: 06:20

So that that kind of push of adrenaline and things like that when you are receiving your first payment for something that you have built was something that I was looking for. So compared to being an employee, so, you know, you have you have your salaries that that, you know, comes in each week or each two weeks, whatever, and things like that, and you know exactly, choosing the other life is kind of a big decision, a very risky one. And you I mean, you you need to be very dedicated, especially back then, would say, to be to be frank. So when I say that I've I think I've I've saw three, you know, major ages in terms of software as a service. I think I was there, you know, kind of early even though I was not really building at at the time.

Dominic: 07:18

I I was still there. I I I would say, you know, near the beginning of of what software service was, you know, when when Basecamp was released and things like that. Mailchimp was also an early an early company to do that. So I was, you know, I was at least at at that place, not really building yet. Just wondering, you know, is it possible?

Dominic: 07:46

Is it completely crazy to think to do that? And and also at first, it it was never really really meant to to to be replacing my my main job. I just wanted some more excitement and build build, you know, product that I I wanted to build. And I was pretty pretty young at the time. I was mainly wanting to build a a hockey simulator game.

Dominic: 08:14

So that that was that was my my first real product that I tried. Never never really released it because it was it was crazy big. I did not really knew what I was entering into and things like that. So, I mean, it's it it took me forever to to reach any kind of I I won't even even say an MVP. I I never even reached that that level.

Dominic: 08:44

But the point is, I was already in the movement. I was already there. I was, you know, gathering all the information that I needed to at least take a decision at some point to to see if I if I should try it or not. And that, you know, that led me to, at some point, quit my job and start my my own company, my own consulting company. So I decided to when I I started to see the the kind of contracts that were signed at at my company with with consultant and whatnot, I you know, you you cannot do anything else other than saying, you know what?

Dominic: 09:31

I can do that myself as well and suddenly get three or four times my my hourly salary that I was having at the time. So it's kind of crazy to to realize that that at some point, it's crazy that a consultant can come to to your company. They don't know anything about the company, and yet they are kind of praised and heard. And even though, you might have have said exactly the same things all over the place, that that was like that for me. Maybe because I was very, very young, but I I was still extremely, I was so passionate about programming, and I'm still are.

Dominic: 10:16

Don't get me wrong. I I was I was there, and the things I was saying was almost the same, if not better than what the consultant was was, you know, reporting and things like that. But just by the fact that they were charging way more money than I am, I guess that it, you know, kind of brought some credential credibility to them. But, you know, seeing that, I was like, oh, okay, man. You know what?

Dominic: 10:46

I I I think I can do that. I think I can I can just, you know, leave this job, which I I liked a lot? And but I I I wanted I wanted more. I wanted I wanted to control my universe, if you will. I wanted to to also focus on or or at least be able to split my time and continue this dream of mine, which was to try and create a software as a service, try to create a product.

Dominic: 11:17

And it was extremely difficult to do that while working, especially we we had some kids at that time and things like that. So the the time, it was kind of rare and things like that. So I thought I should become a a consultant. Now I I I might be able to work one third of what I'm doing now and do the same amount of money if not if not more. So I would I would have, you know, way more time for me.

Dominic: 11:45

So that that is how it started for me. So it was not about technology. It was not about anything like that. It was it was mainly lifestyle and getting a huge, huge, huge sense of purpose of what you are building, which I I was at the company that I that I were. But, you know, when times pass and you are there, you know, five, six, seven years now, things thing, you know, things starts to especially it was a small company.

Dominic: 12:18

I was all most of the time alone or we were two, you know, two or three programmers there. So the time that you are alone so I don't know if you if any of you did that. Maybe it's less common these days. It was back in early two thousand, you know, small companies, you you were, you know, you you could be alone. And the company that I was, which was acquired in in 2023 by Equifax, you know, the amount of data like I was saying.

Dominic: 12:54

So it it was not a small company like, oh, you know what? They only have a credible application. No. No. No.

Dominic: 12:59

No. It it was a gigantesque IT department with, you know, a lot of software, lot of system, a lot of things. So I was lucky enough to to get them as my first client. So you always this is something that most most people can can do when they decide to to switch from an employee to a consultant. Sometimes, often, the companies that that they were employed to offer them to to stay as a consultant, and this this is what I did.

Dominic: 13:36

And to be to be completely frank, this is kind of crazy when you think about that because, you know, from one week to the to the next, your salary is is is changing like crazy. And even though I was trying to negotiate my salary along those those years and things like that, just turning to a consultant immediately. So it's it's kind I I don't know, man. It it's kind of crazy to to to think that, okay. Why why last week I was not worth that?

Dominic: 14:11

But now now that I'm off the payroll and, you know, wanting to go elsewhere, now I'm worth a lot of money. So I started to I started to feel a little bit strange about how companies are sometimes, you know, treating their employees. So I I was starting to ask myself, okay. So so it's all of that for me when it started. It it was a mix of the fire inside me to to want to build product, a product that people really want.

Dominic: 14:50

And if I can get money out of that, well, imagine that would be crazy. And also at that time which is, you know, mid two thousand, you know, it it it it was a it was a hard time, I think, I believe, for software engineer and things like that. It was, it was not like, like today with with with the salaries that people, are having and things like that. So things have changed. But more than that, yeah, I I I I I was trying to to see if I could be able to to just, you know, survive without without being tied to a company.

Dominic: 15:38

I'm I'm try I'm trying to find my word because, you know, it turns out okay for me, but it's it's still it's still a kind of a crazy decision that you need to make. You know? You are you are still leaving a lot of money, on the table, especially, at the beginning when the contract are hard to, to find. So this, you know, this is the consulting, but the software as a service part is even harder. I mean, this is now you are needing to to learn to do marketing and all all all of this new hat that you need to to learn and things like that, new jobs and things like that because now there's nobody that that you're you're kind of alone, if you will, and you need to find customers for your product and you don't even know that your product is good and things like that.

Dominic: 16:30

So so it's it's not really about technology. And and a lot of people, a lot of software engineer, you know, fall into that trap of according way too much importance to the technology. It's not at all that. When you are building a software a cyber service, you know, when when you want to build a software that you sell, we don't care about the the technology at all. It's all about is this thing going to work or not or is this thing appealing to a group a group of people and are they ready to pay you and things like that.

Dominic: 17:09

So that was the the first the first part, if if we can say that, of my journey with with SAS. Basically, discovering this, trying to jump into the into this exciting new world for me and build you know, building product that nobody wanted. The second phase I would say started near the 2000, so 02/1989. So all all until 2020 or 2021, whatever. All all, you know, on until the LMS arrive.

Dominic: 17:49

But the second phase I've seen was what I would consider the golden age of software as a service. So now it's recognized that recurring revenue is kind of crazy when you think about that. You're basically, if you are, you know, lucky and good enough to build something that people want and there's no you know, you are you are getting new customer more than than what you're losing per month and you're basically printing money and things like that. And this is when I started to really go deep into this idea of trying to build a software service to sustain sustain myself and my family because now we have two kids and, you know, consulting is great, but it's, you know, it's not really what I want. It's not, you know, you're not building anything for you.

Dominic: 18:48

As soon as you start, you stop working, you know, nobody is going to pay you and things like that. So a product especially with the recurring revenue is is not guaranteed to to have money but you you know, you can still you can still take two weeks off and you continue to to to you know, there's money that that still enters into your bank account and whatnot. So it's very hard though. The bar was was already high but not that high, I would say, compared to what we have today. So back then, and I'm talking about, you know, like I said, 30 '20 2,008, 2,009, 2,010, things like that.

Dominic: 19:40

You could think of putting something out there and there there was not much. I remember I I kind of I built I built a an invoicing application. So I I was doing consulting. So basically, I I had this idea of building a a, you know, a kind of project management, invoicing, time tracker, and things like that. A a typical application, they they were already a bunch, but not not not that much.

Dominic: 20:13

So if you were able to cut some some attention back then, then you you you were able to get some kind of traffic more easily than than what it is today. And and even even if we if we go back, you know, way a little bit before l l m s when people were still using, you know, search engine and whatnot, it it started to to get some some crazy difficult at the end of of the, you know, twenty eighteen nineteen twenty twenty and things like that. But in '20 in 02/1989, you know, it was it was still possible. You know, for example, they were they were a newspaper that did an article on on the Twitter application that I I sold, you know, in in here in in Canada, which is completely crazy when you think about that. So the the coverage was there.

Dominic: 21:17

It was it was possible to it was it was still possible to attract some eyes to your product by be being a good old programmer and not being that that much of a marketing person or at least being too much out there. So you could you could do you could do small things and to you know, Twitter Twitter was launched in 2008 so that that was kind of the beginning of the building public, you know, movement if you will. So that that that was you know, for me, it was it was great. I was I was posting what I was doing there. I had the blog that people were still reading back then.

Dominic: 22:00

So there were, you know, there there were possibilities to to do simple simple marketing things for programmers that was not, you know, too crazy and and still get some some eyes on your on your product and and even even paid customer and whatnot. So even though I was not really having much success, it started to it started to climb. I mean, I I was having product that that was doing, you know, $500 in in MRR, reaching the the thousand and things like that. So was it was starting to to feel like, okay, maybe maybe I could think of, you know, stopping consulting at some point. So it was it was a nice second revenue at at that time.

Dominic: 22:51

Very very hard to pass some plateau because at some point this is what happened with SaaS. You you kind of reach some plateau and pretty pretty difficult to to go to the next step and what not. But even even even though it was still hard, I think it was a little bit easier to at least get get some initial traction back then. So that's why I think it it was the the golden age of software as a service, you know, the VCs. You know, all the money that we are seeing now in AI and LLMs and whatnot, it was basically it was busy basically on software as a service in in, you know, between 2028 and and twenty twenty twenty eight.

Dominic: 23:41

Yeah. 2008. So even though even though that was still a little bit easier, you know, it it was still a crazy decision to take. At some point, you need to you need to put the efforts if you want to see some result and building building a product and trying to market that outside of of the consulting is is very very daunting quickly. And especially now that you are doing that for a couple of years, you start to feel a little bit down.

Dominic: 24:18

You start to you there there's a lot of up and downs when you are building product and things like that. But when you are not getting that much success and now with the building public and law and the proliferation of people that are succeeding around you and, you know, there there were there were great community back then. I was part of the MicroPlanet Academy of Rob Walling very early. I was one of his first customer there. You start to you start to to doubt a little bit, but still, I mean, when you are an entrepreneur in in, you know, by trade or whatever whatever the right way to call that, when you want to build and you need to build that, you need to live this life, quickly you are realizing that, oh my, it's it's very hard not to do that.

Dominic: 25:15

But that being said, I mean, only a fraction of people was succeeding. So I've you know, don't have any any real data but what I've seen is I I would be shocked if 10% of all the people that I've seen billing software product was was succeeding. So so that means that 90% were either not really be able to sustain themselves or was not really making any money and things like that. I mean, it's kind of crazy when you think about that. It's not like deciding to to create a a brick and mortar shop on on on the corner of a of a great location.

Dominic: 26:03

So if you put your store there, at some point, there will be people that will enter and and and try to to look at what you have. So it was getting harder and harder to to get traffic from from the search engine and whatnot and and the competition, you know, when when the masses discovered that, oh, you know what? Recurring revenue is is is what we need now, that brought a lot of peep you know, a lot of companies and things like that. And like like I was saying, VCs were starting to inject a lot of money into into software service that so in in that decade, it's it really changed our, you know, the level of difficulties to the the entry the the entry level and also trying to succeed was going to be harder and harder as as the time was was passing because now there were a lot of people that were interested into into Southwest service. And, you know, more and more people means that you might start to see a lot of competition in in the the market that you are.

Dominic: 27:20

And, also, also they might have a lot of money because now now it's just a a huge difference between a company that is VC backed and and you trying to do that alone. You have a lot of You have a lot of How can I say that? Yeah. A lot of things that you can do better and quicker and compared to bigger organization as a solo printer. Let's say let's say that that you are maybe alone, maybe you are two or three in a a bootstrap software company, you still can move very fast.

Dominic: 28:05

So I I remember, you know, back back in that time so this is when I joined, you know, Justin McGill and we we built Elite Fuse. I also built roadmap in that decade with with with a team of of two other founders. And now you you you kind of need to take some decision because you you still can do that alone, but it's still it's still very difficult to to do it and compete with company that receive, you know, millions in funding. Now what you want to do? They will they will be able to take the the paid advertisement.

Dominic: 28:45

They will be able to hire a lot of people that you don't have. But what they won't be able to do is that when you you meet on on Monday and you decide to do something it could be done by by Friday or even you know Wednesday. Let's say that you want to build a feature or you want to you know you had this discussion with with a customer and you know they they would they would need x. So shipping fast was kind of a superpower that small teams always were able to, you know, to do. And bigger or bigger companies could could just not follow that.

Dominic: 29:29

But some you know, sometime it can lead to it can lead to some problems, especially especially for some some software engineers. So sometimes you will you will kind of bloat your your own product. This is what I was doing at the beginning. I was talking about this invoicing time tracker and whatnot. So at the beginning, when when you start building a product as a software engineer, you will need to have some some sense that the product is evolving, that you are doing the right thing.

Dominic: 30:08

And what are we doing as programmers is, well, we will write code. This is where this is where we feel good. This is where we think that the there is progress and things like that, but it's it's it's a false positive. It's doing probably the, the opposite because now not only there is a ton of feature, the customers that are trying to jump into your software might be extremely confused, and now it's you know, there's buttons everywhere. It's bloated.

Dominic: 30:42

You don't really think about your feature, you know, carefully and how to present them to to the users or the your user experience is affected, and now you are shooting yourself in in the foot directly because by trying to by trying to feel better and and try to to get this sense of, you know what? I am I am completing some things. I am advancing. My project is is going great. My the product is is growing.

Dominic: 31:13

But no, you know, it's it's not. So that is that is one of the most difficult part for a technical founder to to understand that that, again, the technology is is not the key at all at all. And I I've I've been saying that a lot. And even even on the go Reddit, I in in the couple of times that there were some some thread about SaaS and things like that. I all I'll always say things like, you know, you can build your your MVP in any language that that does not matter because you won't have any customers at first and even even if you have ten, twenty, 100 customers it it's it you know you can do that in anything and at some point I guarantee you that you will need to rewrite it because now you have learned so much about what the the customers that are ready to pay you what they really want in fact and might be completely different than the idea that you had previously or at least originally when you, you started to think about this product and things like that.

Dominic: 32:26

So now, you know, inevitably, your your product will will need a major reel. And I I have rarely be been part of a team where, you know, where a major refactor not not a refactor but more than that. So it's it's a little bit more than that. And often the best way to do that is just to to restart from scratch. I know I know that Gumroad did that.

Dominic: 32:55

The the, you know, the the founder, which I, don't remember his name, but, he he mentioned that at some point, you know, they he he built something really quick in in Python. I don't even know. Maybe it was Django, maybe not, but I I know it wasn't on Python. But at some point, he you know, they just you know, when when Gumroad started to be big, they they they rewrote that. So Freshbook Books did did exactly the same.

Dominic: 33:24

So they they ran this old software for a long time, but at some point, they approached that differently. The they started a competitor. Imagine, believe it or not. They they started a competitor themselves, built the product, and, you know, got some feedback there. And once they were happy and and, you know, this product was was growing nicely, now they they they kind of merged the two and changed the the original product, which is kind of crazy when it's it's a it's an it's a little bit next level compared to to just saying, oh, you know what?

Dominic: 34:02

I will I will rewrite this. No. No. They they they started another company. So all of that to say that it was great.

Dominic: 34:13

It was it was still very, very hard. I I won't even, even say that I I got some success, but, Lead Fuse and Roadmap to me were successes. And, you know, across a couple of other failure in that decade. Still a great a great time to build SaaS in my opinion back then. But things things change.

Dominic: 34:43

I don't know if we will recall the early twenty twenty, you know, I don't know if it will be the COVID, the pandemic or it will be the arrival of a, you know, LLMs and whatnot that will be, you know, in a long time from now. I I I I sense that LLMs will will probably be more talked about, and it had an impact. So that that would be the third age I I that I would say that I've seen, things things changed a lot. And just by just by enabling a lot of noise in the software service, well, in in any kind of market, when you think about that, any kind of industry. So there is a ton a ton of things that are being built, small project.

Dominic: 35:37

And you can, you know, you can see that on on the the go Reddit as well. The sub, they they had to to build a category because now people were kind of posting small, you know, very, very small project or even, you know, a project that they they have built the with with the AI and vibe coding and whatnot. So, I mean, at some point, it affected a lot of community, affected a lot of industry, and SaaS is not different. Now there were a lot of people that were probably using the the no code movement, you know, seven, eight years, from, from 2021, maybe five years. I don't I don't I don't recall.

Dominic: 36:24

But, so now they were able to, to be able to build their own product without without any kind of engineer. And, and, you know, notoriously, we have seen, one one particular example that, the the guy needed to close, his company because, I don't know. There there there was something that the AI was doing. It was it was requesting too too much request to the AI model and whatnot, now they it it was costing him I don't know. I I don't know the story.

Dominic: 37:02

I I will I'm I'm not in very, very interested into those things, to be frank. I'm I'm just trying to see what what is going on at the moment, what what impacts it did. So to me, the proliferation of a lot of noise is is one thing. Secondly, customers are trying to be extremely cautious about new company because now anyone can put, you know, quote unquote, a a software out there, but they don't offer customer support. They don't and now, you know, now there there is a lot of AI as well that that will try to answer the the customer.

Dominic: 37:48

The we are losing a little bit of the edge that small company were having, which was this human touch, this personal you could talk with the founder. The, you know, the founders, were were there to help their customers, but not only that, but they usually knew exactly or had some kind of experience with the domain and and were able to to do something. Now now it's just, oh, I I I want to try this. I will I will try to build a product to do that. And it's it yeah.

Dominic: 38:30

Inevitably, when there is a lot of noise, there there is a lot of there is a lot of of problem with that because, like like I was saying, now now typical customers might might want to to be careful. So that's that's one problem and another one is is the search engine basically. There there's just almost no traffic coming from search engine these days. It's it's crazy. It was increasingly difficult as, as more and more product, you know, reached the market.

Dominic: 39:07

Like I I'm saying in in the in the last decade, there were a lot of SaaS that that was built. Now now it's it's it's still more, but it's pretty hard, you know. You cannot really cannot really hope to get some decent traffic from the search engine. It's it's it's not not very clear where we are going with that. So what it leaves, it leaves it leaves the, you know, social networks, the the paid advertisement trying to forge some partnership with other companies and things like that.

Dominic: 39:42

There is still there is still a lot a lot of ways, but that also put a lot of noise on, you know, things like LinkedIn or other social networks that now people are trying, you know, are trying very very hard to push their things. And since a lot of people now are building, I would say, not really half baked, but let's, you know, let's be honest and and be really frank here. It's not because you are using an AI, you know, for five hours and and have something at the end that you can call that a real product. You know? There's a lot of security problem.

Dominic: 40:25

There's a lot of, you know, information that could be that could be lost and things like that. There there is a ton of things that can happen. And when you think about that, this is kind of crazy. I I don't want to see our field and especially related to software as a service because, again, this this is my passion. This is where I am.

Dominic: 40:48

This I'm I'm I'm currently trying to build another product myself with with my wife. I I won't stop doing that. This, you know, it will work or I will die trying. This this is basically where I am now. But what I what I'm seeing at the moment is I don't I don't know that that I like that a lot to be frank because I I put myself on on the customer's shoes and now I'm I'm just I don't want to see the quality of the software that we are building or that we are using for that matter lowering because of people, you know, believing that this this LLM things is going to to be all magical and all nice and and work really great.

Dominic: 41:40

So I think I think there there is some caution to be to be exercised at this at this moment for, you know, founders that do not do not know much about security, do not know much about technology and things like that. So, yeah, you might be able to to build yourself a small application, but there will be some transaction at some point. There will be some personal information at some point. So, I mean, yeah, it's it's not it's not that that great in my opinion at the moment. And especially, you know, people are can are are starting to be fatigued a little bit to to be bombarded by a lot of things, which is, you know, which is probably good because we we might return from this hype.

Dominic: 42:37

And I'm I'm seeing that a lot these days. The the messages that I'm I'm sensing from a lot of places seems to change and I'm very happy about that to be to be honest. You know, I'm I'm not I'm not completely against what's going on and if if a non tech technical founder wants to build their SaaS with with AI, by all mean, go for it. I I it's not really that, but at least put the bar high enough to have a good quality software. Put the bar high enough to have a good customer service.

Dominic: 43:13

It's not because you are putting this this AI chatbot that you can you can say that you are offering a good a good, you know, support. And I keep keep saying keep taking this this example of Postmark. You know, Postmark was the was that great company for me a couple of years, five years ago and things like that. The cost customer service was great. You you sensed that.

Dominic: 43:42

You were replied by, you know, software engineers at at the end of the of and and things like that, you know, when you had, you know, real hard problem with your emails and and whatnot. The last problem I had, they, you know, they they put me in front of that AI and and it never never got resolved. And a human contacted me like three or four days later and I replied to their message and never got a never got a reply. This is I mean, where are we going with that? So software as a service is not is not that.

Dominic: 44:25

It's supposed to be some, you know, a team a solo a solo entrepreneur or a small team that are passionate about something. They want to build something to be different. They want to build something to delight customers, and they want to serve that that customer base, you know, from the best the best way that that is possible to do that. And I'm sorry but LLMs and AI won't won't do won't do that. At least not now.

Dominic: 45:02

So again, some some some things to to think about but this is where we are at the moment and and it's pretty it's it's way difficult these days to to get started, would say. Not to build, obviously, but it it never was about technology either way. So it's it's it's getting very hard to just start with your initial marketing boost and things like that. I think that the companies or at least the the small teams that that prove to be to be responsive and and therefore they're gonna customers or at least bring back some kind of human interaction and whatnot, I think people are craving for that more and more. I think we have we have hit this this this point of, you know, getting responses from the AI feels really, really cumbersome and and and boring at this point.

Dominic: 46:16

We we yeah. Yeah. I don't know. So that might be a good differentiator at the moment. This is certainly something that that we will do from our side.

Dominic: 46:27

And and, yes, I mean, it's still it's still it's still there in my head. It's the it it won't never leave even though it's it's getting harder and harder to to succeed. But, you know, it depends also success what means to you. So for me, it's just to pay the, you know, the the rent and and the basics that we that we need as a family. So I'm I'm not, you know, I'm not looking to to to to do like 2,000,000 ARR and things like that.

Dominic: 47:02

I I don't care. It's not that. If if I if we've reached that, then okay. Good. But that that is not the that is not the case.

Dominic: 47:10

And I think when your expectation are realistic and when you are working towards realistic goals, it it really helps to prevent burnouts and things like that. Because let let's let's be honest. It's it's not it's not an easy task. And I'm not alone. Even though I started, for real in 2008 to to build and launch products, you know, I'm I'm not alone in in in that and and, you know, having having tried, how much how much time?

Dominic: 47:50

Like, seventeen years. This is kind of discouraging just to just to say, but we are a lot in that boat. And it's important for me, but but, yeah, you know, it's it's not for everyone for sure. And you really need to to think about about the the repercussion of doing this. Because if if I were to calculate, you know, if I were if I have I have been a a nine to five employees all the all these years and or if I had done more consulting, of course, I would have more money at the at this moment.

Dominic: 48:33

But for me, purpose and lifestyle is way way way way higher than money at the moment. So so that's why I'm I'm continuing. So hopefully that was kind of interesting. This again, software service is a topic that that I really really enjoy. And and Go is a great is a great language to build to build a SaaS.

Dominic: 48:59

And I I created a course about that, long time ago, that I might, I might refresh soon. So on that, thank you for listening.